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[Assessment 1022] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33Andrea Wilder andreawilder at comcast.netMon Oct 29 11:19:48 EDT 2007
Words are so tricky, I don't really know what either of you two (Mary Lynn) are talking about--if I were to observe your classes, what would I see??? would there be a real difference? Thanks. Andrea On Oct 29, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Carver, Mary-Lynn wrote: > Wow, I must say I disagree with Mary Lynn Simons. Many ABE/GEDstudents > come in just wanting to pass the test, but have no critical thinking > or transitional college skills. If we don't help them understand and > acquire some of those skills, they will not be able to succeed with > the transition to higher education. If not us, who? I think it is one > of the first duties of any teacher to give students what they need to > succeed in their class and beyond. I don't feel it is > paternal/maternalistic to help them set a course to success. > > Thanks, > Mary Lynn Carver > ABE/GED Instructor > College of Lake County > Building 4, Office 405 > 19351 W. Washington Street > Grayslake, IL 60031 > Phone:847/543-2677 > mlcarver at clcillinois.edu > Fax: 847/543-7580 > > "Blessed are they who laugh at themselves, for they shall be > constantly amused" -- Unknown > > We now accept the fact that learning is a lifelong process of keeping > abreast of change. And the most pressing task is to teach people how > to learn. --Peter F. Drucker > > ________________________________ > > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of > assessment-request at nifl.gov > Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:23 AM > To: assessment at nifl.gov > Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33 > > > > Send Assessment mailing list submissions to > assessment at nifl.gov > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > assessment-request at nifl.gov > > You can reach the person managing the list at > assessment-owner at nifl.gov > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Assessment digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. [Assessment 1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills > (David J. Rosen) > 2. [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! > (Mary Lynn Simons) > 3. [Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! > (Andrea Wilder) > 4. [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills > (David J. Rosen) > 5. [Assessment 1015] GED preparation and creativity (David J. > Rosen) > 6. [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! > (Donna Chambers) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:17:10 -0400 > From: David J. Rosen <djrosen at comcast.net> > Subject: [Assessment 1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills > To: The Technology and Literacy Discussion List <technology at nifl.gov>, > The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List > <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>, The Assessment > Discussion List > <assessment at nifl.gov>, The Adult English Language Learners > Discussion > List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> > Message-ID: <1BB3689A-BB68-4D01-9B2E-5FCFC26EC3B9 at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; > format=flowed > > Colleagues, > > The Media Library of Teaching Skills (MLoTS) project, a free Web- > based library of short digital videos of adult education classrooms > and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created reading and numeracy > videos and over 30 other videos, including those from: > > ? NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy > tutoring) > ? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology), > ? OTAN (integrating technology) > and > ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what low-literate ESOL > learners can and cannot do with literacy) > > I hope you will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or > tutoring short videos in digital form, please let me know. I am > hoping that MLoTS will become a large, "one-stop" collection for > adult literacy education classroom videos. > > David J. Rosen > djrosen at comcast.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 01:01:15 +0000 > From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com> > Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! > To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> > Message-ID: <BAY115-W323773268663F2FF780147BF900 at phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them > accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically > decide what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to > be able to pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to > college or training as fast as possible. > > > > ----------------------------------------> From: > Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct > 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - > what you need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential > in GED programs, especially if> students are planning to go on to > college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal ability to freely > think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh options are > usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> require > program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we> know, > writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>> > Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> > rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. > Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement > creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For > students to truly> understand history, they must be able to vi > sualize different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into > statistics and math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations > are used to communicate ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in > another posting made the remark that students in a GED> class who are > not reading in class are not practicing reading at all. If> the > instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if > the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of > more> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need > to take that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline > that we might not> get with GED students. But especially with students > who want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need to > have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just > now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a > long time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how> > creativity is used in the co > llege classroom as well as what GED students can> expect in college > (though perhaps not to this extent, depending on the> teacher and the > class). http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm > believer in extensive transitional services for GED students> planning > to attend college, and I think it's essential to have> communications > between public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED > students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include> > creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine > Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County > Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108> > work 703-791-8387> fax 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov > [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion > List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need > to know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by > creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a > means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will > more students have more and higher academic skills,> better test > scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we> want > students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> both? And > where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, > that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would > put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and > as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should > provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that > are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking > skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and > the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the > assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring >> now adult secondary education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, >> at least through standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical >> thinking skills, and if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in >> adult literacy education is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc >> Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the> greatest >> economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree >> with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high> >> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only >> traditional> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important >> creative skills> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and >> from different> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a >> range of> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, >> a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, >> or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead >> to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thin > king (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the box").>> > Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should> > they be? Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED or high> > school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable> > employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to> > successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be> > teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking> > and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> > djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F > wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching > critical>> thinking skills which once our students know how to think > in a>> critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving > their>> education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 > education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning > wheel of>> accountability which stifle > s creativity and teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> > BHCC>> Adult Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> > From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->> > bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October > 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>> Subject: > [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>>>>>> > I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized>> > test. We need look no further then those who have been successful>> on > any type of test. We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,>> just > smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are well>> rounded, enjoy > reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I don't know, > I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be the > reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more > disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure > to the arts, banking industry, faculty > ,>> medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to > offer>> more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only > exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My students participate > in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend > to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of > time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally > frustrated>> when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they > would>> like." Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>> > activities that have to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>> > more creativity!>>>> Shirley Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>> > NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a > proponent of creativity in adult literacy education -->> indeed in all > education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National>> Center for > Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>> recently to the > National Commission on Adult Literacy, http:// <http:///> >>> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education system -->> >>> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without >>> high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED teachers >>> and administrators believe that their>> students will not pass the >>> GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the >>> test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many >>> K-12 teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe >>> creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be >>> the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key question on the >>> minds of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite the >>> panelists to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it >>> essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> >>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original message >>> ---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> >>> We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> >>> wanted to>>> give a qu > ick reminder where you can get the information on this>>> discussion. > For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> suggested > resources go to:>>>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> > 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - > there were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please > post your questions and also your own experiences to share>> > now!>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List > Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List > Moderator>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: > "Marie Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what > you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi > everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, > and so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you > can get the information>> on this discussion. For the full > announcement, information on>> guests, and suggested resources go > to:>>>>>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/ > 07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ? > there were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at: > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> > Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share > now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> Assessment Discussion > List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List > Moderator>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> > Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or > change your subscription settings, please go to>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to > djrosen at comcast.net>> ------ > ------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> > Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or > change your subscription settings, please go to>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to > msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National > Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> > Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription > settings, please go to>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to > djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> National > Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to > kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> National > Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings > , please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email > delivered to macsimoin at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. > Stop by today. > http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:24:28 -0400 > From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net> > Subject: [Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! > To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> > Message-ID: <9e32f2dbe2ba96b51be97f5819a91d2c at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; > format=flowed > > Hi Mary Lynn-- > > One of my mantras for students, no matter the age, has been: "Don't > waste their time." Is this what you are getting at? > > Andrea > > On Oct 27, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Mary Lynn Simons wrote: > >> >> Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them >> accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically >> decide what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to >> be able to pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to >> college or training as fast as possible. >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------> From: >> Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct >> 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - >> what you need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential >> in GED programs, especially if> students are planning to go on to >> college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal ability to freely >> think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh options are >> usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> require >> program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we> know, >> writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>> >> Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> >> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. >> Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement >> creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For >> students to truly> understand history, they must be able to visualize >> different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics >> and math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to >> communicate ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another >> posting made the remark that students in a GED> class who are not >> reading in class are not practicing reading at all. If> the instructor >> is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the> students >> are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of more> >> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take >> that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we >> might not> get with GED students. But especially with students who >> want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need to >> have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just >> now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a >> long time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how> >> creativity is used in the college classroom as well as what GED >> students can> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, >> depending on the> teacher and the class). >> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in >> extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend >> college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between >> public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED >> students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include> >> creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine >> Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County >> Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108> >> work 703-791-8387> fax 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> >> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov >> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen> >> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion >> List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to >> know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by >> creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a >> means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will >> more students have more and higher academic skills,> better test >> scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we> want >> students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> both? And >> where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, >> that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would >> put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and >> as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should >> provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that >> are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking >> skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and >> the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the >> assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary >> education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through >> standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and >> if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education >> is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not >> paying attention to one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the >> historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that >> the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes basic skills tests for >> K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic skills for the GED >> tests disrespects important creative skills> like the ability to look >> at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the ability to >> try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to represent >> an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other >> figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and >> follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of >> thinking (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the >> box").>> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. >> No. Should> they be? Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED >> or high> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone >> to stable> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door >> to> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should >> be> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical >> thinking> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. >> Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, >> Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean >> teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our students know how >> to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be successful in >> achieving their>> education and other life goals. However, just like >> K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes >> spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity and >> teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult >> Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: >> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On >> Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> >> To: The Assessment Discussion List>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: >> GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>>>>>> I agree that >> creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized>> test. We need >> look no further then those who have been successful>> on any type of >> test. We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,>> just smart, etc. >> If you speak to these folks they are well>> rounded, enjoy reading, >> mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I don't know, I just >> know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be the reason for >> disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more disparity >> between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to the >> arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as part of >> your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing >> then someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. >> My students participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those >> that "get into it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that >> feel it is a waste of time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" >> are generally frustrated>> when "all of their hard work does not pay >> off like they would>> like." Creativity also leads to retention; >> especially those>> activities that have to be completed in increments. >> Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley Ledet>>>> GED >> Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> >> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy >> education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of >> the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a >> presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, >> http:// <http:///> >> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. >> education >> system -->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive >> without high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED >> teachers and administrators believe that their>> students will not >> pass the GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to >> pass the test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. >> (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe >> creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be >> the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key question on the minds >> of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite the panelists >> to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for >> success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> >> -------------- Original message ---------------------->> From: "Marie >> Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new subscribers over the >> past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a quick reminder where you can >> get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full announcement, >> information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go to:>>>>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> >> 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - >> there were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please >> post your questions and also your own experiences to share>> >> now!>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List >> Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> >> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List >> Moderator>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: >> "Marie Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what >> you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi >> everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, >> and so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the >> information>> on this discussion. For the full announcement, >> information on>> guests, and suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/ >> 07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ? >> there were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at: >> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> >> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share >> now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> Assessment Discussion >> List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> >> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List >> Moderator>>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> >> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> >> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or >> change your subscription settings, please go to>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to >> djrosen at comcast.net>> ------------------------------->> National >> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription >> settings, please go to>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to >> msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National >> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> >> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription >> settings, please go to>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to >> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> National >> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to >> kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> National >> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to >> macsimoin at hotmail.com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. >> Stop by today. >> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html? >> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline >> ------------------------------- >> National Institute for Literacy >> Assessment mailing list >> Assessment at nifl.gov >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment >> Email delivered to andreawilder at comcast.net >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:39:24 -0400 > From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net> > Subject: [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills > To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> > Message-ID: <0570AB67-85EE-4F24-AF0B-2E657CB60778 at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; > format=flowed > > ....and the Web address for MLoTS is: > > http://www.mlots.org <http://www.mlots.org/> > > David J. Rosen > djrosen at comcast.net > > > On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:17 PM, David J. Rosen wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> The Media Library of Teaching Skills (MLoTS) project, a free Web- >> based library of short digital videos of adult education classrooms >> and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created reading and numeracy >> videos and over 30 other videos, including those from: >> >> ? NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy >> tutoring) >> ? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology), >> ? OTAN (integrating technology) >> and >> ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what low-literate ESOL >> learners can and cannot do with literacy) >> >> I hope you will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or >> tutoring short videos in digital form, please let me know. I am >> hoping that MLoTS will become a large, "one-stop" collection for >> adult literacy education classroom videos. >> >> David J. Rosen >> djrosen at comcast.net >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> National Institute for Literacy >> Assessment mailing list >> Assessment at nifl.gov >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment >> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:17:38 -0400 > From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net> > Subject: [Assessment 1015] GED preparation and creativity > To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov> > Message-ID: <65D538BA-4A9D-42EE-A726-89161F3F5D5C at comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Hello Andrea, > > On Oct 27, 2007, you wrote: > >> Has anybody yet in this conversation defined 1. critical reading >> and 2. creativity? > > Here's more on defining creativity. To begin with, it's quite > unlikely that we will agree on a definition. There are more than 60 > of them in the psychological literature (Taylor, 1988), and as far > as I am aware there is no standardized measurement instrument for > creativity. Some believe it is inherited; some believe it can be > taught; some believe it can be nurtured or encouraged. I believe that > some kinds of creativity can be taught or at least nurtured and that > it involves a set of mental activities often closely aligned with the > kind of mental activities we call critical thinking. Most of us would > agree, I believe, that a key element is originality, but we might > differ in describing the paths to it. And it may look different in > different contexts, in the sciences, in the arts, in technology, and > in the creative problem solving of daily living. > > In the context in which I raised the issue of creativity, I was > thinking of the application of new ideas, what some would refer to as > innovation or ingenuity. It is this applied creativity that I believe > Marc Tucker had in mind as something that Americans have historically > valued and excelled at, that has been an element of American economic > success, and that may be undervalued or lost now in the education > systems' rush toward performance on high stakes standardized tests. > > Are adult literacy education students (including basic education, > secondary education and ESOL) capable of this kind of creativity? If > so, should we nurture it? I believe they are and that we should. In > many GED programs I have seen, it is not nourished, usually not even > acknowledged in program goals or objectives. And I have never seen > it measured. This indicates to me that, as a field, we do not value > and support student creativity. I agree with Marc Tucker that, if we > are interested in Americans' global competitiveness that we should > value creativity, and of course, there are other good reasons to > nourish creativity. > > What do you think about this? > > > * Taylor, C.W. (1988). "Various approaches to and definitions of > creativity", in ed. Sternberg, R.J.: The nature of creativity: > Contemporary psychological perspectives. Cambridge University Press. > > David J. Rosen > djrosen at comcast.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 07:51:18 -0400 > From: "Donna Chambers" <donnaedp at cox.net> > Subject: [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> > Message-ID: <001f01c81958$da000530$8e5fdd48 at DH89L251> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > Mary Lynn, > > Your argument to push learners forward is a common belief. I am not > suggesting to hold learners back, but if we are to prepare them for > just > "passing the test" we are overlooking the "ASE" responsibility of our > job. > Preparing the learner to possess the expected academic skills of a > high > school student and be ready to transition to college level academics > is in > the learners' best interest in respect to time and money. Community > College should not have to remediate adult basic skills, and yet they > do. If > the GED were to be more aligned with the tests required to enter > community > college, such as the Accuplacer, the transition would be smoother, but > it is > not. Preparation for the learners next steps, which includes basic > and > secondary fundamental skills, is the responsibility of Adult Literacy. > > Donna Chambers > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Lynn Simons" <macsimoin at hotmail.com> > To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:01 PM > Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know! > > > > Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them > accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically > decide > what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to be able > to > pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to college or > training as fast as possible. > > > > ----------------------------------------> From: > Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: > assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: > [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> David, > I > agree that creativity is essential in GED programs, especially if> > students > are planning to go on to college! Students who pass the GED with> > minimal > ability to freely think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh > options are usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> > require program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As > we> > know, writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to > develop.>> > Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> > rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. > Humanities> > courses demand students to understand and even implement creative > forms,> > figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For students to > truly> > understand history, they must be able to visualize different time > periods.> > Symbolic thought translates into statistics and math classes in which> > graphs, numbers and equations are used to communicate ideas. The list > goes> > on.>> Someone here or in another posting made the remark that students > in a > GED> class who are not reading in class are not practicing reading at > all. > If> the instructor is writing on the board, if the students are > writing, if > the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of > more> > formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take > that> > home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we might > not> > get with GED students. But especially with students who want to pursue> > higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time to > teach> > them to think critically.>> Finally, I just now ran across an essay > from > Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a long time but did in my past > lives. > The essay demonstrates how> creativity is used in the college > classroom as > well as what GED students can> expect in college (though perhaps not > to this > extent, depending on the> teacher and the class). > http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in > extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend > college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between > public > schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to > succeed. > Part of these discussions should include> creativity used and expected > in > every academic setting.>>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online > Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools> Adult Education> > P.O. Box > 389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387> fax > 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From: > assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> > Behalf > Of David J. Rosen> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The > Assessment Discussion List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED > Discussion - > what you need to know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we > mean > by creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a > means > to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will more > students > have more and higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is > creativity > itself an end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically > prepared and creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit > in?>> I > would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic> > skills > and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these > catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary> > education > (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the> opportunity to > have > academic skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong > critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong > academic > skills), and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is > the > assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary > education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through > standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and > if so > how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is > measuring> > creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying > attention to > one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of > the > U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus > on > high> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only > traditional> > basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills> > like > the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different> > perspectives, > the ability to try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability > to > represent an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a > metaphor or > other figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand > and > follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of > thinking (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the > box").>> Are > these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should> > they be? > Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED or high> school > diploma as > a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable> employment and > self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to> successful > post-secondary > learning, these are the skills we should be> teaching and measuring: > academic skills, including critical thinking> and creativity.>> I > invite > your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On > Oct 26, > 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to > creativity do we mean teaching critical>> thinking skills which once > our > students know how to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be > successful in achieving their>> education and other life goals. > However, > just like K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high > stakes > spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity and > teachers > teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult Education & > Transitions > Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov > [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet>> > Sent: > Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The Assessment Discussion > List>> > Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to > know!>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on > standardized>> test. We need look no further then those who have been > successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use terms like natuarally > gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are well>> > rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> > "I > don't know, I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may > be > the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more > disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure > to > the arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as part > of > your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing > then > someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My > students > participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get > into > it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste > of > time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally > frustrated>> > when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would>> like." > Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>> activities that > have > to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> > Shirley > Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net > wrote:>>>> > Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy > education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of > the > National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a > presention>> > recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http:// > <http:///> >> > www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education system -->> > and he > includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high>> academic > standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED teachers and administrators > believe that their>> students will not pass the GED unless they focus > on > skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a>> > "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators > or > policy makers also believe creativity distracts>> from passing high > stakes > tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key > question on the minds of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I > invite > the panelists to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it > essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> > djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original > message ---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi > everyone,>>>>>> > We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted > to>>> > give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this>>> > discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> > suggested resources go to:>>>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> > 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - > there > were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please > post > your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>> > Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List > Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> > NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: > "Marie > Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you > need to > know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>>> > We?ve > had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to > give a > quick reminder where you can get the information>> on this discussion. > For > the full announcement, information on>> guests, and suggested > resources go > to:>>>>>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/ > 07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> > If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you>> > can > catch up in the archives at: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> > assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also > your > own experiences to share now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> > Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> > marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List > Moderator>>>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------------------------->> > National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> > Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription > settings, > please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email > delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>> ------------------------------->> > National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> > Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription > settings, > please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email > delivered to msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> > ------------------------------->> > National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> > Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription > settings, > please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email > delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> > National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> > Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription > settings, > please go to> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email > delivered to kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> > National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> > Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription > settings, > please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email > delivered to macsimoin at hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. > Stop by > today. > http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline > ------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Assessment mailing list > Assessment at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment > Email delivered to donnaedp at cox.net > > > > ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Assessment mailing list > Assessment at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment > > > End of Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33 > ****************************************** > > > <winmail.dat>------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Assessment mailing list > Assessment at nifl.gov > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment > Email delivered to andreawilder at comcast.net
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