I too "love this stuff"--quoting from Michele's message.

 One comment made by Michele hit home with me.  "Bring your seasoned 
veterans..." to the workplace. This reminded me of an ESOL teacher from 
Sevierville, TN who met her ESOL employees at 8:00 each morning at the foot 
of a mountain.  Her students drove her up the hills to the class location. 
The manager of the workplace had said they had to close the class when the 
location was relocated but the class was so important to the students that 
they went to the manager and asked if they could take the teacher to the 
class.
When an employer can see how important the class is to the employees and how 
much their work has improved, they will gladly extend the ESOL class.  This 
seasoned veteran made a difference.
Pat Sawyer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michele Pappalardo" <MPappalardo at northampton.edu>
To: "'The Workplace Literacy Discussion List'" <workplace at nifl.gov>; "'Pat 
Sawyer'" <psawyer49 at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Workplace 1535] To those listening to the discussion...


Hello all,

It's been quite some time since I have posted to  the list but as I was 
reading the discussion around workplace ESL I thought I would take a moment 
and post some thoughts. I love this stuff!!

I am a director of a department within our Center for Business and Industry 
at a local community college in PA. I spent my first 7 years as a program 
and special projects manager in our large adult literacy department. I have 
also been involved with the PAWIN program since its inception.

The focus of our department is to be a "one-stop" resource center for 
business and industry on our region so I am involved with many of the 
funding streams available for training to businesses in PA. We provide some 
customized training although training is not our primary function, and we 
work with companies in training plan development and management. But when 
workplace ESL is needed, we, with the help of PAWIN support,  are the ones 
who will do it.

I found myself nodding in agreement with many of the comments made by Cathay 
and others regarding managing companies expectations. In working with 
companies I have found this to be so true. I have always integrated our ESL 
workplace as yet another service we can provide in the "continuum " and try 
to avoid much of the educational jargon, but one standing discussion we 
drive home is what is realistic expectations.And I agree that we need to 
approach it as a business.  Always do your homework, understand who the 
company is,what they produce, history in the area etc. Demonstrate your 
knowledge of the business culture because you may only get one shot at 
working with them, and also the opportunity to work with a group of 
employees that need your services the most. Once you are "in" always:
1. bring your seasoned veterans who have done workplace training before. 2. 
Customize, customize, customize, you have your audience generally for a 
short time, teach for application of skills to do the job better and safer. 
3. Define your outcomes and expectations before you ever start a class. Know 
what success looks like for the client and yourself before you start. And no 
that it's OK to say no, not all expectations are reasonable, nor are 
conditions for program delivery.

Sorry, rambling on here, keep up the great work that is going on out there.

Michele



>>> "Barbara Tondre" <btondre at earthlink.net> 7/24/2008 11:10 AM >>>

Are your questions being answered?   If not, please let your needs be known!
There are so many angles to workforce / workplace / work-based ESL
instruction, it is often challenging to anticipate what readers really want
or need to know.  For those who might be venturing into this arena for the
first time, here's your chance to pose your questions to some very
experienced individuals.  What I find sobering about this discussion is that
most of the participants have been readily able to admit that we learn as we
go, and yes, we all make mistakes and errors in judgment when starting out.
The fact that there are some wonderful resources at your fingertips should
make it easier for you to avoid some of the pitfalls others of us
encountered as we started out.  So ask away!  And if one of the
participants' remarks especially "speak" to you, you may have found a
potential mentor!



Barbara Tondre



  _____

From: workplace-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:workplace-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Pat Sawyer
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:27 PM
To: The Workplace Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [Workplace 1533] Response to Cathay's message



Dear Cathay,

Thank you for your most interesting message.  I think you communicated your
ideas very well and I imagine they will be of help to all of us.  This is
what is so wonderful about a discussion list like this one.  We learn so
much from each other!

Pat Sawyer

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Cathay <mailto:cathayreta at sbcglobal.net>  Reta

To: agallup at essentiallanguage.com ; The Workplace
<mailto:workplace at nifl.gov>  Literacy Discussion List

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 5:28 PM

Subject: [Workplace 1532] Re: Managing expectations



Hello All,



I would like to comment on what I feel is the biggest issue in providing
workplace literacy training, and it perhaps comes along under the theme of
"managing client expectations."    I believe that when we go to a company we
must approach them on their terms, in their culture, and seek to understand
them.  Company training is very different from classroom teaching.



To illustrate, when I first considered offering workplace literacy as a
director from a small CBO, I talked with the local adult school principal
about it. I was told it was a waste of time.  They had tried it and found it
to be 100% failure.  As I probed further, I realized that what he had tried
was to take their standard ESL classes and simply offer them at a company
site.  Each one had a great start and each one quickly fizzled out.



I later became a workplace literacy instructor and found success with it.
As others have described, I set up the program, met with management, HR and
employees and developed the curriculum.  (By the way, I like to take
pictures of the workers doing their jobs and build these into the workbooks.
The employees love it.)  The key to success was being able to approach the
job as a workplace trainer, not an educator.  And central to that is
understanding that my client is the company, not the individual employees.
The employees benefit tremendously, but my client is the company.  Let me
quickly add I would not sacrifice the employees to meet a client's
expectation, and clearly there are times when you must teach the employer
what is not acceptable, but it's the underlying attitude that you are
serving the employer that is important.



I think the best way to approach it hearkens back to Stephen Covey's "7
Habits" in which you seek first to understand, and then be understood.  I
believe that if we approach workplace instruction from the culture of the
workplace, we will learn a lot and from what we learn, we will even find
ways to improve our ESOL instruction in the traditional classroom.



I don't think I've communicated this well, but let me at least throw this
much out there at this point.  I do agree with Amber's post, and with others
I've read; and I feel this perspective is also important to interject into
the conversation.



Cathay Reta

Cornerstone Concepts

6670 Southside Drive

Los Angeles California   90022

cathayreta at sbcglobal.net



Amber Gallup <agallup at essentiallanguage.com> wrote:


In response to Pat Sawyer's last message -

Several posters have alluded to the challenge of managing the client's
expectations.  It's common to hear questions like that which Pat mentioned,
"How many weeks is this going to take?"  I have found that it will take much
more than one conversation before my clients really begin to understand
what I'm saying regarding the process and time commitment of language
learning and the goals of the course (which we develop together as much as
possible through the needs analysis process.)

I have found that the needs analysis itself is useful not only to identify
students' and workplace needs, but also to bring out into the light of day
the stakeholders' expectations....which are often unrealistic and/or
conflicting with other stakeholders' expectations.  The needs analysis
process provides an opportunity to do the very important work of getting all
stakeholders on the same page...it's a little teachable moment.  If
important stakeholders have different ideas of why we're doing this (say,
union and management) and  how it will impact them....that can deal a death
blow to a program!

I always use an example from a electricans' union for which I once put
together a VESL program when I first began this work:  In the needs
analysis, I did my language task analysis and I interviewed some workers,
the union leaders, the apprentice coordinator, the organizer, and the
contractor (the "big boss").  I felt good that this part of the needs
analysis had been thorough and everybody shared an understanding of our
goals.  Yet, by the end of the semester, the otherwise very successful class
was almost done away with!....why?  Because the workers' foremen (who were
not getting jobs finished on time because they lost some of their crew for a
few hours each week) were angry and refusing to let their workers leave for
the class.  I had neglected to make them part of the process, and their
differing expectations and needs led to revolt.  We modified the course
schedule and luckily continued on, but I learned some lessons about needs
analysis.

Also, I liked Miriam's description of how she did her observations (language
task analysis) BEFORE she interviewed the various stakeholders.  I'll be
using that tip...it's a great idea - because it gives us more information on
which to base our questions to stakeholders, and as Pat already mentioned,
often the management (or HR, or union leader, etc.) will just say, "I want
them to learn English," and not be able to go much farther than that.

Amber

Amber Gallup

Director, Essential Language

(202) 234-4565

www.essentiallanguage.com

 <mailto:agallup at essentiallanguage.com>



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Cathay O. Reta
Cornerstone Concepts
6670 Southside Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90022
Ph: 323) 728-4302
cathayreta at sbcglobal.net

  _____

----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Workplace Literacy mailing list
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Michele Pappalardo
Director, Business Training Resources
Northampton Community College
Fowler Family Southside Center
511 East Third Street
Bethlehem, PA. 18015
610-861-4588